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	<title>Comments for Essentially Contested America</title>
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		<title>Comment on Here&#8217;s Hillary! by Philip G. Johnson, Esq.</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=3120&#038;cpage=1#comment-1681</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip G. Johnson, Esq.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=3120#comment-1681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From 1934 until the election of Ronald Reagan, the Republican Party ran every election against Franklin D. Roosevelt and the New Deal.  Now the GOP runs every election against Bill and Hilary Clinton.  Like the Bourbons after the French Revolution, the Republicans have learned nothing and forgotten nothing.  When you have nothing to offer but fear and conspiracy theories, you have to have some visible focus for your fear. The symbol of the Clintons--like the symbol of FDR--provide that focus.  Reality doesn&#039;t enter into the equation, because the Republicans learned long ago that symbols have a much greater motivating force than do facts. This is one reason that informed debate is impossible.  The parties occupy two totally different domains of discourse and, necessarily, talk past each other.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From 1934 until the election of Ronald Reagan, the Republican Party ran every election against Franklin D. Roosevelt and the New Deal.  Now the GOP runs every election against Bill and Hilary Clinton.  Like the Bourbons after the French Revolution, the Republicans have learned nothing and forgotten nothing.  When you have nothing to offer but fear and conspiracy theories, you have to have some visible focus for your fear. The symbol of the Clintons&#8211;like the symbol of FDR&#8211;provide that focus.  Reality doesn&#8217;t enter into the equation, because the Republicans learned long ago that symbols have a much greater motivating force than do facts. This is one reason that informed debate is impossible.  The parties occupy two totally different domains of discourse and, necessarily, talk past each other.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Saint&#8221; Michael: America&#8217;s Need for Gods, Saints, and Heroes by Darvon McDonald</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=2863&#038;cpage=1#comment-1680</link>
		<dc:creator>Darvon McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/blog/2009/07/07/saint-michael-americas-need-for-gods-saints-and-heroes/#comment-1680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NEWS FLASH:

Michael Jackson was proven INNOCENT in the court of Law. Please do not judge. Get to know the man. stop listening to the B.S. Media who brainwashes almost everybody including yourself. Michael has suffered enough in this world. Please don&#039;t crucify him more. WHY has Michael sold more then $20,000,000 albums since his death? Because people finally got it that hey, THIS MAN HAD TALENT. Please leave him alone. ALL he wanted to do was Heal the World. In my opinion... MICHAEL IS A SAINT.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NEWS FLASH:</p>
<p>Michael Jackson was proven INNOCENT in the court of Law. Please do not judge. Get to know the man. stop listening to the B.S. Media who brainwashes almost everybody including yourself. Michael has suffered enough in this world. Please don&#8217;t crucify him more. WHY has Michael sold more then $20,000,000 albums since his death? Because people finally got it that hey, THIS MAN HAD TALENT. Please leave him alone. ALL he wanted to do was Heal the World. In my opinion&#8230; MICHAEL IS A SAINT.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is a Reasonable Health Care Program Possible in the United States? by Robert Justin Lipkin</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=2898&#038;cpage=1#comment-1679</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Justin Lipkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/blog/2009/07/24/is-a-health-care-program-possible-in-the-united-states/#comment-1679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have asked Canadians: my family. And they marvel at how Americans can be duped into believing the Canadian system is plagued by all sorts of difficulties. Between government and corporate control, I&#039;ll take the former any day.  Why? At least, there I have some say, namely, the vote.

The insurance companies are waging a campaign of misinformation about the Canadian system. Don&#039;t be duped by it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have asked Canadians: my family. And they marvel at how Americans can be duped into believing the Canadian system is plagued by all sorts of difficulties. Between government and corporate control, I&#8217;ll take the former any day.  Why? At least, there I have some say, namely, the vote.</p>
<p>The insurance companies are waging a campaign of misinformation about the Canadian system. Don&#8217;t be duped by it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is a Reasonable Health Care Program Possible in the United States? by R. C. La Violette</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=2898&#038;cpage=1#comment-1678</link>
		<dc:creator>R. C. La Violette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/blog/2009/07/24/is-a-health-care-program-possible-in-the-united-states/#comment-1678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[...&quot;the Canadian “single-payer” system, on balance, is far better than ours.&quot;

Where do you get that idea?  Ask a Canadian. Sure, it may cost less to the individual for some services, but the services are limited and you have to wait sometimes years for certain surgical procedures.  Better? I think not.

Also &quot; Isn’t there anything that we can do to guarantee that American health care is not once again hijacked, controlled, and smothered by the insurance companies?&quot;

I don&#039;t think you have to worry about that.  It is in the process of being hijacked, controlled, and smothered by the Big Brother Government.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8221;the Canadian “single-payer” system, on balance, is far better than ours.&#8221;</p>
<p>Where do you get that idea?  Ask a Canadian. Sure, it may cost less to the individual for some services, but the services are limited and you have to wait sometimes years for certain surgical procedures.  Better? I think not.</p>
<p>Also &#8221; Isn’t there anything that we can do to guarantee that American health care is not once again hijacked, controlled, and smothered by the insurance companies?&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you have to worry about that.  It is in the process of being hijacked, controlled, and smothered by the Big Brother Government.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jeff Sessions: Empathy Towards One Litigant Means Bias Toward the Other Litigant? by Robert Justin Lipkin</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=2870&#038;cpage=1#comment-1677</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Justin Lipkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/blog/2009/07/13/jeff-sessions-empathy-towards-one-litigant-means-bias-toward-the-other-litigant/#comment-1677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Three final points: First, a non sequitur is an &quot;argument&quot; where even if the premise is true, the conclusion doesn&#039;t follow. It has nothing to do with the independent truth of either the premise or the conclusion. To say (1) feeling someone else&#039;s feelings precludes (2) judging against that person is a non sequitur because (2) simply does not follow from (1). An additional premise is required.

Second, I&#039;m not at all sure what you&#039;re packing into the notion of &quot;the same emotions as both sides of the case.&quot; If my daughter breaks my son&#039;s I-Phone because he refused to permit her to borrow it, I can empathize--experience her feeling of being short-changed--while simultaneously experiencing my son&#039;s feeling that his I-Phone is his and he need not share it with his sister.  I can simultaneously experience both their feelings, and therefore can empathize with both kids. It seems on your view empathy is a raw emotion that if you experience no other emotions contrary to it can be felt. I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a useful conception of empathy, some dictionary definition notwithstanding. Sympathy is a weaker attitude. Third, I can sympathize with someone without empathizing with that person.  The bottom line, in my view, in judicial cases, is that judges should be able to experience the litigants emotional experiences and perspectives as a precursor to seeing/expereincing the world from that person&#039;s shoes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Three final points: First, a non sequitur is an &#8220;argument&#8221; where even if the premise is true, the conclusion doesn&#8217;t follow. It has nothing to do with the independent truth of either the premise or the conclusion. To say (1) feeling someone else&#8217;s feelings precludes (2) judging against that person is a non sequitur because (2) simply does not follow from (1). An additional premise is required.</p>
<p>Second, I&#8217;m not at all sure what you&#8217;re packing into the notion of &#8220;the same emotions as both sides of the case.&#8221; If my daughter breaks my son&#8217;s I-Phone because he refused to permit her to borrow it, I can empathize&#8211;experience her feeling of being short-changed&#8211;while simultaneously experiencing my son&#8217;s feeling that his I-Phone is his and he need not share it with his sister.  I can simultaneously experience both their feelings, and therefore can empathize with both kids. It seems on your view empathy is a raw emotion that if you experience no other emotions contrary to it can be felt. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a useful conception of empathy, some dictionary definition notwithstanding. Sympathy is a weaker attitude. Third, I can sympathize with someone without empathizing with that person.  The bottom line, in my view, in judicial cases, is that judges should be able to experience the litigants emotional experiences and perspectives as a precursor to seeing/expereincing the world from that person&#8217;s shoes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jeff Sessions: Empathy Towards One Litigant Means Bias Toward the Other Litigant? by Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=2870&#038;cpage=1#comment-1676</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/blog/2009/07/13/jeff-sessions-empathy-towards-one-litigant-means-bias-toward-the-other-litigant/#comment-1676</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think its reasonably possible to simultaneously feel the same emotions as both sides of the case (unless their feeling the same thing).  I&#039;m just about certain it isn&#039;t possible to regularly or reliably do so.  

  In terms of judges and judicial rulings, what gets praised or attacked as empathy often doesn&#039;t fit the dictionary definition of empathy.  For example in the case about the teenage girl (now an adult woman) who had been stripped searched at school, I very much doubt Ginsburg or any of the other justices, actually felt what that girl felt.  I think rather she (perhaps) understood what the girl felt, and felt sympathy for the girl and her feelings, but understanding of, and sympathy for someone emotions isn&#039;t the same as actually feeling/experiencing those emotions.  True empathy isn&#039;t very common, sympathy and/or understanding is much more likely.  

  Understanding of the emotions can be useful, and doesn&#039;t seem likely to have much downside.  Sympathy could be useful, but could be a source of bias.  True empathy would be very likely to be a source of bias, and doesn&#039;t seem like something that would be necessary or clearly useful in many judicial cases.

-----

  As for my statements being a non-sequitur, well you seem to be making arguments that they are false.  I disagree with that, but even if they are that wouldn&#039;t make them non-sequiturs.  You disagree with the truth of my premise, but a false premise doesn&#039;t make for a non-sequitur.  In different uses a non-sequitur can mean a conclusion that doesn&#039;t logically follow from the premises in a formal argument, or it can refer to in which premise and conclusion are totally unrelated but which is used as if they were, or it can refer to a answer or reply that has no connection at all to the question or statement its replying to.  Even if we assume that my statement is totally wrong, it wouldn&#039;t fit any of those definitions of non-sequitur, it would just be a false statement used as a premise in an argument.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think its reasonably possible to simultaneously feel the same emotions as both sides of the case (unless their feeling the same thing).  I&#8217;m just about certain it isn&#8217;t possible to regularly or reliably do so.  </p>
<p>  In terms of judges and judicial rulings, what gets praised or attacked as empathy often doesn&#8217;t fit the dictionary definition of empathy.  For example in the case about the teenage girl (now an adult woman) who had been stripped searched at school, I very much doubt Ginsburg or any of the other justices, actually felt what that girl felt.  I think rather she (perhaps) understood what the girl felt, and felt sympathy for the girl and her feelings, but understanding of, and sympathy for someone emotions isn&#8217;t the same as actually feeling/experiencing those emotions.  True empathy isn&#8217;t very common, sympathy and/or understanding is much more likely.  </p>
<p>  Understanding of the emotions can be useful, and doesn&#8217;t seem likely to have much downside.  Sympathy could be useful, but could be a source of bias.  True empathy would be very likely to be a source of bias, and doesn&#8217;t seem like something that would be necessary or clearly useful in many judicial cases.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>  As for my statements being a non-sequitur, well you seem to be making arguments that they are false.  I disagree with that, but even if they are that wouldn&#8217;t make them non-sequiturs.  You disagree with the truth of my premise, but a false premise doesn&#8217;t make for a non-sequitur.  In different uses a non-sequitur can mean a conclusion that doesn&#8217;t logically follow from the premises in a formal argument, or it can refer to in which premise and conclusion are totally unrelated but which is used as if they were, or it can refer to a answer or reply that has no connection at all to the question or statement its replying to.  Even if we assume that my statement is totally wrong, it wouldn&#8217;t fit any of those definitions of non-sequitur, it would just be a false statement used as a premise in an argument.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jeff Sessions: Empathy Towards One Litigant Means Bias Toward the Other Litigant? by Robert Justin Lipkin</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=2870&#038;cpage=1#comment-1675</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Justin Lipkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/blog/2009/07/13/jeff-sessions-empathy-towards-one-litigant-means-bias-toward-the-other-litigant/#comment-1675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Again, I think this is a non sequitur: &quot;If your decision is in any way based off feeling the same emotions as one side in the case your simply not being objective, not non-sequitur about that its just facing reality.&quot; First, I can simultaneously feel the same emotions of both sides in a case. That&#039;s one element in what we ordinarily consider a wise decision process. It seems your definition of empathy suggests if I feel someone&#039;s emotions I am somehow swept up by those emotions and unable to appreciate the emotions of others involved. That&#039;s not an interesting conception of empathy. &#039;Facing reality&quot; distorts understanding of complex human intellection and empathy. It is not rich enough to settle the issue. The law is replete with empathizing with multiple parties so are many examples of dispute resolution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, I think this is a non sequitur: &#8220;If your decision is in any way based off feeling the same emotions as one side in the case your simply not being objective, not non-sequitur about that its just facing reality.&#8221; First, I can simultaneously feel the same emotions of both sides in a case. That&#8217;s one element in what we ordinarily consider a wise decision process. It seems your definition of empathy suggests if I feel someone&#8217;s emotions I am somehow swept up by those emotions and unable to appreciate the emotions of others involved. That&#8217;s not an interesting conception of empathy. &#8216;Facing reality&#8221; distorts understanding of complex human intellection and empathy. It is not rich enough to settle the issue. The law is replete with empathizing with multiple parties so are many examples of dispute resolution.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jeff Sessions: Empathy Towards One Litigant Means Bias Toward the Other Litigant? by Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=2870&#038;cpage=1#comment-1674</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/blog/2009/07/13/jeff-sessions-empathy-towards-one-litigant-means-bias-toward-the-other-litigant/#comment-1674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If your decision is in any way based off feeling the same emotions as one side in the case your simply not being objective, not non-sequitur about that its just facing reality.

  If OTOH by &quot;empathy&quot; you mean something like &quot;understands how the people involved feel&quot; (which I think is what a lot of people mean, even though its doesn&#039;t fit with the dictionary definition I gave in my last comment), than such &quot;empathy&quot; can be a matter of understanding at least slightly or potentially relevant facts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If your decision is in any way based off feeling the same emotions as one side in the case your simply not being objective, not non-sequitur about that its just facing reality.</p>
<p>  If OTOH by &#8220;empathy&#8221; you mean something like &#8220;understands how the people involved feel&#8221; (which I think is what a lot of people mean, even though its doesn&#8217;t fit with the dictionary definition I gave in my last comment), than such &#8220;empathy&#8221; can be a matter of understanding at least slightly or potentially relevant facts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jeff Sessions: Empathy Towards One Litigant Means Bias Toward the Other Litigant? by Robert Justin Lipkin</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=2870&#038;cpage=1#comment-1673</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Justin Lipkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/blog/2009/07/13/jeff-sessions-empathy-towards-one-litigant-means-bias-toward-the-other-litigant/#comment-1673</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;To the extent your truly experiencing empathy your are not being totally objective.&quot;  This is simply a non sequitur. If all you&#039;re experiencing is empathy for Jones you are not being totally objective, whatever that means anyway. But if empathy for Jones--experiencing Jones&#039; feelings--is one of the factors you&#039;re taking into account in your judgment along with other factors--empathetic or not--then by doing so you&#039;re coming closer to objectivity than if you eschew empathy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To the extent your truly experiencing empathy your are not being totally objective.&#8221;  This is simply a non sequitur. If all you&#8217;re experiencing is empathy for Jones you are not being totally objective, whatever that means anyway. But if empathy for Jones&#8211;experiencing Jones&#8217; feelings&#8211;is one of the factors you&#8217;re taking into account in your judgment along with other factors&#8211;empathetic or not&#8211;then by doing so you&#8217;re coming closer to objectivity than if you eschew empathy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Jeff Sessions: Empathy Towards One Litigant Means Bias Toward the Other Litigant? by Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/?p=2870&#038;cpage=1#comment-1672</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://essentiallycontestedamerica.org/blog/2009/07/13/jeff-sessions-empathy-towards-one-litigant-means-bias-toward-the-other-litigant/#comment-1672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Empathy isn&#039;t just perceiving what someone else feels, its

&quot;the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner&quot;

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empathy

  Note the experiencing part (and that its combined to the rest with an &quot;and&quot; not an &quot;or&quot;).   If your experiencing the thoughts and/or feelings of one side in the case, your not just perceiving relevant facts.  To the extent your truly experiencing empathy your are not being totally objective.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Empathy isn&#8217;t just perceiving what someone else feels, its</p>
<p>&#8220;the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empathy" rel="nofollow">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empathy</a></p>
<p>  Note the experiencing part (and that its combined to the rest with an &#8220;and&#8221; not an &#8220;or&#8221;).   If your experiencing the thoughts and/or feelings of one side in the case, your not just perceiving relevant facts.  To the extent your truly experiencing empathy your are not being totally objective.</p>
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